81 – Taking a Stand (Part 2)

n today’s episode, Peter and Sonny concluded the conversation started in episode 79 about our chapter’s legacy in political advocacy. Over the last 50 years, we have taken a stance on what we believe is right, and because of it, our voice is respected. This is the reason why Vice President Pence called ABC the Marine Corps of American Politics. Even those politicians who disagree with us still respect us, which shows that our stance on things is solid and established.

To get the gist of the entire conversation, we recommend you go back to Episode #79 if you haven’t heard that one yet. 

Also, the first person to email The Obvious explaining why Peter rang the bell will win a The Obvious Podcast tumbler just like the one Peter and Sonny have in the show (sans your name). 

The full audiovisual version of this episode is available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/fX3XOlO9288 

“The Obvious Podcast” is a production of ABC Florida East Coast Chapter. Unless otherwise stated, all content reflects the opinions of the guests and hosts.

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Transcript

Sonny Maken 0:10

Welcome to the obvious podcast.

Peter Dyga 0:12

So we started 79, part one. Yes. Talking a little bit about um what do we talk about? The values of ABC and how we do part two. How do you codify, implement, process all of the uh different opinions that come together and uh you know and how it all needs to be aligned with you know our values and the mission of the organization because that's been determined by our members, right? You know, and that's reviewed periodically, which we do. This isn't just a legacy you know thing for us. So um in any event, the whole meritocracy.

Sonny Maken 0:44

So what I wanted to before we get into that, I wanted to kind of the first person to send Peter an email and tell us why he keeps ringing this bell gets a $25 Amex or Amazon. We did that last week.

Peter Dyga 1:03

We're gonna do a mug. Oh, this week it's a mug. Okay. It's an obvious the obvious mug. Yeah, but not with my sonny's name on it or mine. It won't have your nice quality without saying the name brand. Tumblr. Tumblr, yes. Insulated Tumblr. If you send us to the obvious at abceflorida.com, your guess about what the bell is all about.

Sonny Maken 1:25

So what I wanted to say is this, right? So look, we're in we're an organization that is uh we're a trade association, right? So big part of what we do, networking, not controversial. We do like 80 events a year. We have an amazing events team.

Peter Dyga 1:39

Don't say non-controversial. I can tell you some stories over 26 years, brother. All right. Sorry to sound like that guy. I'm I'm gonna quit if I don't get that job. Really? Oh, sure. Networking can get very hot.

Sonny Maken 1:53

Okay, well, that's gonna be another episode. Uh I thought networking would be non-controversial.

Peter Dyga 1:58

I get your point.

Sonny Maken 1:58

I also thought it's trying to stoke some kind of right. You know, we're we're obviously very big in education. We run the largest apprenticeship program in the state of Florida. Um that I know is not uh non-controversial. That is controversial. So let's put that aside for now. Um but the thing that sort of top of the line controversy. Top of the line controversy. And especially during an election year, which is what this is, is our political advocacy and our political power and what happens when we, and this is our episode title, part two, is when we take a stand.

Peter Dyga 2:32

Yep.

Sonny Maken 2:32

Right? So we've been talking about that, the power of taking a stand, how it has an impact. We're in year 58 as an organization. Um in two years, you know, we're gonna be celebrating our 60th anniversary, and that's a huge deal for any organization to last that long. Well, not just to survive, but then to grow, have an impact, and take a stand. And so we wanted to talk give you a little bit of a look, sort of inside baseball, kind of how we codify that, how we deal with conflict, how we, you know, there's all sorts of differing opinions that come up and and issues we have to deal with. So that's what kind of we're talking about today. And this is part two, so listen to 79.

Peter Dyga 3:08

So, yep. So last week we talked a little bit about, you know, how how you um reconcile, you know, I think the different interests, right? The different political interests. So we talked a lot about that. We don't need to necessarily cover that ground again, right? No. We talked about uh why we have agendas, which uh again, we are governance wonks. Yeah. You know, we like like talking about that kind of stuff.

Sonny Maken 3:28

But I think I think hold on, the but I think the best point about the agenda thing was like let's focus on the agenda and not on our personal agendas.

Peter Dyga 3:36

Right. We talked about conflict of interest.

Sonny Maken 3:38

Right. You know, which is and that you should repeat because it's that's an important point that conflict of conflict of interest is perceived as primarily being a financial thing.

Peter Dyga 3:49

Usually where people's mind you know goes to or immediately goes to, but you would define it. Basically, a conflict of interest is having your own personal priorities or agendas or um you know goals, interests, whatever. Right. Uh above the organizations, you know, and hopefully you've got some good solid ones as an organization. That's an important element to this whole process, you know, that your board and your committees helped establish uh you know, those priorities and those goals. But and uh, you know, I would I would certainly venture to say here at ABC we're very thorough about that, I think. So uh in any event, uh putting your own personal interests above those of the overall organizations. Um now you might say that's the obvious part, you know, uh because somebody might argue well, these aren't really my personal interests. I'm advocating for the organization.

Sonny Maken 4:35

Right.

Peter Dyga 4:35

You know, so that's where you know it might get a little more um sticky gray and sticky, I think. So um, but again, um that's uh you know not your typical way people to understand a conflict of interest, but it's actually probably the much more common. Much more common. Much more common. You know, you're making um uh decisions, you know, based on relationships you have rather than you know what's maybe best for the organization, or let me say it a different way, relationships you have rather than looking objectively at the relationship that particular company or person may have with the organization, yeah, as opposed to you. Does that make sense? What do you mean by the relationship that maybe I got an example I can share?

Sonny Maken 5:22

I don't know if I should or not.

Peter Dyga 5:23

But well, you know.

Sonny Maken 5:24

Uh I will I won't say where or who, I won't take any names, I will not tell you the geography, but there was a race um that happened in the recent past, um, local election. The frontrunner did not want, and we have a very simple process for endorsing political candidates. They fill out a questionnaire and they come in for an interview.

Peter Dyga 5:43

If they're not incumbents, we talked a little about this. You know, incumbents have a track record. We don't necessarily have to do the questionnaire.

Sonny Maken 5:48

Right. This was an open seat, not an incumbent. Um, but the front runner who comes from a very well-known political family, dynasty. Dynasty, refused to come in, refused to talk to us, refused to, you know, he's he was or the person was just like, you know who I am, I'm not gonna fill out the questionnaire and come in. Uh, a couple of other people did. And we were told through different channels um, hey, just if you're not gonna endorse the front runner, just stay out of this race. Right? Multiple times we were told this. And we made it clear this is our process.

Peter Dyga 6:24

People who show up and who compete for our vote, who by the way, that's our role, right? Making sure we're clear about the process.

Sonny Maken 6:31

Right.

Peter Dyga 6:31

It was our members that actually made the decision.

Sonny Maken 6:34

Yeah, on who to endorse, correct. Members, yeah, we don't decide who to endorse. Uh Peter and I don't have a vote in that decision that that is made by um members. And this person who didn't want to um participate in the process also wanted us to stay out of it, right? Not endorse. We ended up our our members decided to support the underdog. And the underdog won. Yep, right?

Peter Dyga 7:03

Won the race. And the this ties back to, you know, we've talked a lot about what makes ABC stand apart, yeah. What makes A, you know, vice presidents of the United States call ABC the Marine Corps of American politics. It's not because we're not courageous that we don't take stream. We don't, you know, we don't take a stand, we do take away. We don't take a stand. Right. And and by the way, not just taking a stand sometimes, but um timing is a big part of taking stands. Yeah. You know, if you wait until everybody else is out in front of you, you know, it's not much of a stand. Right. You know, so timing oftentimes is a big part of this conversation as well. So and then it just has been for ABC for our 58-year history as a chapter. You know, uh a lot of very uh well-informed and engaged um industry professionals recognize the influence of this organization. But it wasn't built overnight, and no one person can hold claim.

Sonny Maken 7:56

Yeah. Um here's why this is what uh my question for you. We have three people full-time just on our government affairs department. Uh no, sorry, two people full-time on our government affairs department. We have three consultants? Yeah, three consultants that we hire. So we're up to really five people. And then the state organization has its own, and then the state also hires uh law firms. National have their own people. National has their own people. So with just us alone as a chapter, we have five people that are engaged in uh advocacy work for our members.

Peter Dyga 8:34

Staff alone. And we're not even talking about members and relationship members have for staff alone. Yeah.

Sonny Maken 8:40

We're just talking about that members exert and we only have uh there's m I would say not some, I would say most ABC associations across the country have no government affairs people, and we have two that are full full-time on staff.

Peter Dyga 8:57

And our our board and our leadership deserve tremendous credit for you know, we present a budget every year that allows us to do this.

Sonny Maken 9:05

But my question for you is why so many people? Like, why are we hiring professional lobbyists?

Peter Dyga 9:09

Right, sure. So my my belief is one, the mission we've been given, which is to grow ABC's influence. So you can't do that without um, you know, a significant commitment, you know, to people that do it full time. Right. You know, so that's that's part of it, you know, and why I think the the board regularly, as long as we're uh God willing, you know, able to financially support it, why we're able been able to grow that government affairs team, if you will, whether it's uh staff members or uh contract lobbyists. So so that's the reason. But the other reason is to bring in some level of expertise, right? So the most obvious and and um and and clearest example in terms of um um I want to say vicinity, you know, or the only thing closest to us at the moment is proximity, you know, is uh you know, we we decided this year as a chapter to do something we've never done before, which is pursue uh, you know, a significant appropriations request because the state of Florida has a a well-stated um objective of trying to grow apprenticeship in the state of Florida.

Sonny Maken 10:15

Right.

Peter Dyga 10:16

Um and who better to partner to do that with than the single largest provider, which is the ABC and the ABC Institute. So you know, anyway, we've done many uh programs, I think, on this, and people who are uh familiar with the association know about our real estate investment and the Hylia facility and how we're in the throngs right now of, you know, uh getting construction documents and building that out, and it's just gonna be one of our showcase, you know, facilities. But the most important thing is from a state perspective, is it allows us as a program in the state to go from, you know, we had a ceiling of like 300 or so given our lease space that we had at the time, and we can do we're gonna probably approaching a thousand, you know, give or take. You know, yeah. I mean, it's like three times it's gonna provide for three times our growth, you know. So um, in any event, pursuing that appropriation was gonna require some level of expertise that we didn't have. So we went out and got it, right? Because there are people that, you know, years ago we went out and got uh an expert that had the the relationships and the knowledge in terms of state education system, right? Because we were fighting at that time to try to get clarity on the whole of you know funding and appendership in the state of Florida and whatnot. So to answer your question, uh I will I won't say uh quickly or shortly because I've already blown that, I think in 50. So but to answer your question, it's oftentimes also to to bring a board at some level of expertise. Expertise. Yeah.

Sonny Maken 11:42

So all right.

Peter Dyga 11:43

All right. So we were going somewhere with this.

Sonny Maken 11:45

Um I'm wondering how do you process when experts are ignored, you know, the armchair quarterbacking, right? For the lack of a better term.

Peter Dyga 11:57

That's a great question. Yeah. Why don't you and I try to fill up the rest of the show with that assessment? Yeah. You know, we did a podcast a while back, uh, we were talking about um you know trust and the importance of trust. Yeah, episode 77. You know, so um, you know, I think that plays in this, you know. I mean, if you don't trust, um, and and by the way, this gets back to other governance-related issues, which is a the conflict of interest. Are you do you sure you don't just have a personal opinion about maybe that person doesn't have the expertise that we think he has, even though the organization has made a decision to hire that, that they they do have that level of expertise. You know, so are you sure it's not just a personal interest that you're putting in front of uh the organizational interest? So that's you know one one particular way I think of looking at that.

Sonny Maken 12:47

Before you continue that point, I I do want to say this. It is fascinating to me that you could be an expert in any field, right? And if you watch the news regularly and you understand kind of what's happening in the world or in the country or in the state politically, the number of people who think they are experts on politics. Because they, you know, I bel there is this what's the word I'm looking for?

Peter Dyga 13:16

Sonny, I've learned over the years and I've been involved in politics most of my all of my adult life and going into my but but conflating awareness with expertise.

Sonny Maken 13:25

Correct.

Peter Dyga 13:25

Correct.

Sonny Maken 13:26

Right?

Peter Dyga 13:26

Especially in politics.

Sonny Maken 13:28

I don't see that in any other field, right? Like I see that mostly in politics, where people will just assume because they're aware of something, they're experts at it.

Peter Dyga 13:35

Because most people just boil politics down to an opinion between one candidate and another or one person and another. That's a great point. Can you say that again? That's a really great point. Because most people distill, you know, the the concept or the idea of politics is just a decision between one person and another.

Sonny Maken 13:49

Which is why because everybody uh everybody was convinced Hillary Clinton was gonna win.

unknown 13:54

Sure.

Sonny Maken 13:55

Because the perception was she's better like than the other guy, so she's gonna win. Yep. Okay. That's a great point. The most qualified candidate. But I do ever. But I do find that interesting because like nobody does nobody does that with roofing. You know. You know, I walked a roof, I see some water standing there, that means I know a ton about roofing. Like you you never will make that mistake, but you do that with politics.

Peter Dyga 14:17

Yeah.

Sonny Maken 14:18

And I do find that interesting.

Peter Dyga 14:19

Anyway, I think we were talking about the purpose of, you know, so so going back to the whole idea of So you know, we're in part two of a two-part because we had a lot to say. We wanted to continue it.

Sonny Maken 14:28

But I do want to make this point because you say this all the time. You know, you'll say, I've heard you say this multiple times. It's political science. Right. Right? It's the reason they call it political science. There's a reason why they call it science. And I think so many people forget that.

Peter Dyga 14:42

To your point, they conflate the Yeah, not the values part, not the fact that your personal values might be one thing, you know, and but the question is, are they aligning with the organization's values? So that's important, you know, getting to that conflict of interest. You know, so but yes, I mean the but the science part of it is, you know, how how you uh you know, how you use that system to grow your influence, right?

Sonny Maken 15:04

So I want to talk about this real quick. This is about your point about political science, and we're running out of time. There's a firm out of um Gainesville that you and I have talked to multiple times. I don't know if you want to say their name or not. That is an expert at the science part of politics, right? They look at every race in the state, they'll tell you just to say data is in their name. Data is in their name, right? Yeah, and they are phenomenally good at tracking every race doing these uh internal polls.

Peter Dyga 15:30

But doing it, by the way, for you know, uh candidates and parties and candidates for decades. Yeah, you know, so yeah, sure. It is there's a little bit of a science. And by the way, that was at the core of you know a lot of our action for uh going back, I think eight years now.

Sonny Maken 15:44

Right, you know, um we've done because of the data analysis that they do and they're so good at it. This is my point about political science. Because they understand the science piece of it, right? We are able, we as an ABC, we are able to go in and play in races where the right candidate needs help, right? Where they're on the bubble or they're in an there's an issue.

unknown 16:06

Right.

Peter Dyga 16:06

With the emphasis being on the right candidate. The right candidate.

Sonny Maken 16:09

So we would never do this if it wasn't for somebody who aligned with our values and the organization's values. So to go in and to help that candidate actually get over the hump and actually win a race. Sure. Right? The the example you use all the time is uh the very first time the governor ran. And that was a very close race. Yeah. And the EBC invested a lot of resources after doing the science part through this firm out of Gainesville and helped him get over the the uh hub.

Peter Dyga 16:37

Yep, yep. And everybody's got their opinions about you know, processes and things and ways to do things and what what works for them and what you know, so but yeah, there are the reason you hire professionals, staff, or whatever. So we and we you know we're we are running out of time, and I think we want to make get this point, or we'd have to have a part three. You know, which is you know, we've hired a lot of professionals. Yeah. Um, the board has given us that privilege, you know, in our budget and whatnot. And it's uh I'm very I'm I'm very careful of emphasizing with staff, you know, that we should be respectful of being asked for our input and our opinion.

Sonny Maken 17:15

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 17:16

Uh although hopefully, you know, um members would think of doing that or spending good money.

Sonny Maken 17:20

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 17:21

You know, so but it is it can be a little frustrating if we ignore, you know, kind of the advice or you know, the uh the opinion sometimes of of professionals.

Sonny Maken 17:31

It goes back to that point about trust, right?

Peter Dyga 17:34

Goes to a point of trust. It can also go to the point of conflict of interest. Right. Both, yeah. Anyway, we kind of come full circle, I think, in in all this. So anyway. This is like a Chappelle show event. We kind of brought it all together after two episodes. So you know.

Sonny Maken 17:46

So to summarize, no, you know, I do think uh we should end every episode with that pose. Like you gotta stick your finger out, and I'll be like, I'll have that goofy smile on my face.

Peter Dyga 17:59

There you go. All right. So anyway, I hope that you found this interesting. Yeah. So um, I hope it, you know, uh what's the point of any of our podcasts? Uh, you know, it's obviously to um to enlighten and entertain. You know, that's right. You know, and to raise uh awareness and I think branding to some degree of uh ABC in the Florida East Coast chapter. But see, all of that happens if we do enlightenment and entertainment. That's right. Because if you don't do those two right, you're not gonna have any of those. But anyway, I you know I hope you found some, you know, and it and it in it sparks better governance, which is what a lot of our objectives here. Um it um also, you know, uh whether it's and by the way, you don't, you know, we have listeners I'm uh we know, we're certain, are not just Florida East Coast chapter members.

Sonny Maken 18:47

Oh, yeah.

Peter Dyga 18:48

This applies to whatever nonprofit you may be involved with, you know, quite frankly here. Good governance is good governance, it doesn't matter where you are. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Sonny Maken 18:56

So I do hope you appreciate how hard we try to make these 20-minute episodes for you because I am trying to watch uh uh or try not even watch, I'm trying to listen to a podcast that's five hours long. It's taken me a week to go an hour into it. I'm like, man, I got four more hours left of this. Yeah. So um and and and we realize it's a little different and unusual, and we usually don't do part one and part two episodes, but we're just we wanted to cover this because it's not just for us. I think it really helps you, sort of whatever environment you're in as a leader. And I know so many leaders listen to the show and watch the show. So to be sort of aware of how you provide your governance and how you kind of manage uh your roles and leadership, especially in the internet.

Peter Dyga 19:38

These two sh these two uh episodes were jam-packed with great information, I think. Absolutely. But hopefully you uh got something from it. I'm guessing it's not gonna be the last time we talk about certainly a political or government affairs aspect of ABC this year. Uh, you know, but we talked it for everywhere from agenda to conflicts of interest to you know the professionals and professional opinions and staff opinions and data and science. So And the bell. Don't forget the bell. That's right. So all right. Remember the first one that emails us this week about the bell gets a mug. Gets that mug.

Sonny Maken 20:08

All right. Thank you for listening and honoring us with your time. We look forward to sharing another episode with you on Friday.

Peter Dyga 20:13

And don't forget for comments, send us that email at theobious at abceflorida.com. Until next time.