97 - Workforce Development 101 (Part 1)

In this episode, Peter and Sonny break down the terminology, policies, and education models shaping Florida's construction workforce. They explain the differences between workforce development, career and technical education (CTE), vocational training, and registered apprenticeship. They highlight why Florida's industry-led apprenticeship system has become a national model. 

The conversation explores skilled trades, labor shortages, workforce policy, employer-driven education, on-the-job training, and the future of construction careers, offering valuable insight for contractors, business leaders, policymakers, educators, and anyone interested in the evolving workforce landscape.

In this episode:

• What workforce development really means
• The difference between CTE, vocational training and apprenticeship
• Why Florida's apprenticeship model is industry-driven
• How on-the-job training creates highly skilled craft professionals
• The role of employers in shaping construction education
• Why apprenticeship is gaining national attention and policy support

 The full audiovisual version of this episode is available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-a6CYqaGZs4 

“The Obvious Podcast” is a production of ABC Florida East Coast Chapter. Unless otherwise stated, all content reflects the opinions of the guests and hosts.

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Transcript

Sonny Maken 0:09

Welcome to the Obvious Podcast. This is episode number 97. My name is Sonny Maken. I'm the CEO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Peter Dyga 0:18

And I'm Peter Dyga, the president and CEO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Sonny Maken 0:23

You are listening or watching to The Obvious, where all opinions expressed are our own unless we say otherwise.

Peter Dyga 0:29

Subscribe on any major podcast platform or watch us in action on YouTube. Follow the Obvious Podcast on Instagram, X TruthSocial, and TikTok. All the links you need are in the show notes. And if you enjoy the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. This is the best way for others to find our show. And reach out to us anytime at the obvious@ abc eastflorida.com. And if you're enjoying the ride, help others find us again by leaving a review wherever you listen.

Sonny Maken 0:58

Happy Friday, Sonny. Happy Friday. I know it's been a week since you got back. How's your uh jet lag?

Peter Dyga 1:04

Um good. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coming back was a little easier because you're, you know, you you get the time. You get the time back, yeah. You know, and the as long as you stay awake and you have a good night's sleep. So yeah. Yeah. Pretty good.

Sonny Maken 1:15

Excellent. Maybe we can talk about your trip on a future episode. Okay. That was uh certainly the posts were very interesting. All right. Um, but today our episode is titled uh Workforce Development 101. Okay. 101. 101. All right. And the impetus of this episode, I had a meeting with a subcontractor trade association, like a national trade association for one of the trade one of the subcontracting trades. Okay.

Peter Dyga 1:41

Right.

Sonny Maken 1:42

And they have they don't have any sort of an education platform for their trade in Florida. And one of our ABCI board members um knows them, knows some of their uh board leadership, and he asked me to have lunch with him um this past week. And most of the lunch was really sort of going into the basics, defining apprenticeship, defining sort of the different vernacular, talking about the nomenclatures, uh, right, and then how Florida does apprenticeship, okay, the difference between workforce development, the you know, upskilling versus growing uh the labor pool. And it just kind of I realize we talk about it a lot because we've been at it for 51 years and we're the largest uh apprenticeship provider in the state of Florida. But there's a lot of people who who who hear the phrase, the terminology and the phrasing in pop media and culture and on the news, but don't really understand what the words mean and don't really understand sort of the implication of the vocabulary that they're using. So I thought we talk about that a lot. We talk about that all the time.

Peter Dyga 2:43

People pass around this word in particular apprenticeship, and they don't really mean it. And I think it's a jobs program.

Sonny Maken 2:49

And so I really wanted to do like an episode where we sort of put on the record. Sounds like the whole episode's gonna be a good thing. The whole episode will be the belly. Again, if you don't know what this is about, uh we will not tell you. But if you have a guess, send us an email and you'll and if you're correct, you'll get a free prize. Yeah.

Peter Dyga 3:06

We should do this like a um a rolling over thing. Like the uh like the uh lottery. Okay. That if nobody guesses this week, then it's gonna guess next week. Okay. I don't know. What do you think about it? Yeah, that's a great idea. And we could say like this week, the grand the the the lottery, the guess the bell purpose is up to, you know, yeah, five awards or whatever. Start low at a dollar, double it.

Sonny Maken 3:29

Yeah, I don't think we can give cash out because there must be some. There you go. Gift cards. So I wanted to have a conversation with you. Because and and one of the biggest reasons I wanted to talk about this, this is all over sort of the news and socials, and everybody's like, oh, the trades. And I mean, my gosh, every conversation I have, AI will never have any impact on the trades. You know, it's like the jobs are safe. Oh, look at how much money electricians make and the AC guys make. Everybody, everybody's talking about it. And I know, and I know that's a fairly recent sort of cultural phenomenon that has really taken over. Um certainly this country, uh I mean, I'm I'm assuming Europe's having the same conversation. But certainly here, it has really become a topic of conversation. So uh being the subject matter experts that we are, I figured I would ask you some questions because you have probably forgotten more about apprenticeship than I'll ever know. So I figured I'll ask the questions and we can have a conversation about like just defining the words and what it is. All right. Sounds fun. And specifically what it means in Florida. All right. All right. So you and I have a lot of meetings with a lot of elected officials and and school board elected members and um bureaucrats, and we talk about apprenticeship all the time, especially in the last, you know, four or five years. It has really skyrocketed as a topic of conversation. Absolutely.

Peter Dyga 4:47

And by the way, let me say something about that. You know, that that didn't this is um I'm um taking a line from your uh lexicon or vocabulary. You know, that didn't happen in a vacuum or that didn't happen overnight. Right. You know, it's not like we just woke up and all of a sudden there was great conversation. I mean it took a lot of different people for many, many years, I think, trying to um promote this you know, concept, you know, and it's finally got a little bit of uh momentum and whatnot. So that's great. So but yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, it's that conversation, the national conversation, the state conversation was maybe a little ahead of that curve, I think, in Florida. Um and again, I think we were a part of that conversation for a long time. Absolutely. When nobody was listening, you know, so in any event. And what do we mean by that? We mean uh it's a positive conversation about the value of this form of post-secondary education or this form of education.

Sonny Maken 5:38

So exactly. So before we get into that, can you and I don't necessarily mean like a like a dictionary definition, but like just based on your vast experience in this in this um sector, can you just give us some basic definitions? Like what's workforce development, what's vocational training, what's um CTE? You know, you'll hear CTE all the time thrown about in conversations. Kind of let's just define those for our audience so everybody sort of is on the same page.

Peter Dyga 6:05

Okay. What w all of them? Which one you want to do? Yeah, let's start with let's start with workforce development.

Sonny Maken 6:09

Because uh everybody says workforce development, but a lot of people see it as a bringing more people in as a jobs program.

Peter Dyga 6:15

Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would say technically workforce development doesn't necessarily have to be in my mind, workforce development can be any program, any effort that kind of helps develop the workforce of the future. Okay. All right, and that might be a combination of people with more traditional bachelor's degrees, you know, like project or estimators and project managers and whatnot in our industry. I mean, I would say that that could be part of workforce development. When we talk about, for example, our ABC student chapters and the competition and all that, to me that's part of workforce development. Absolutely. You know, um, but then I think there's on a on a different level, I think a lot of people when they talk about that, they they primarily are thinking about the non-degree granting types of education and the more the certificate type granting education opportunities. Does that make sense? Yep. You know, so I mean I think that's you know, in general, but I think that's maybe limiting in some ways, because you know, it's uh workforce development just means you know, the workforce of the future, how do we get there? How do we develop that workforce that we all need, that the industry needs to be.

Sonny Maken 7:19

So developing new workforce and developing the existing workforce. Correct. Right.

Peter Dyga 7:22

So CTE, what does that mean? That's just a fancy uh bureaucratic term for career and technical education. It's kind of the replaces the old shop.

Sonny Maken 7:31

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 7:31

You know, so but now we call it kind of career and technical education.

Sonny Maken 7:35

So And that's just the same thing as as trades or skilled trades or trades education or anything like that. Okay. So let's talk about sort of the big the big kahuna tuna, which is apprenticeship. Sure. What how do you define apprenticeship? What does apprenticeship mean?

Peter Dyga 7:50

Yeah, that's a great question. So and I would say the most basic thing you have to understand about apprenticeship, and again, it can mean different things in different states, and in fact it does. Right. And it sometimes it can mean very legal thing, which it does in the state of Florida, but I think conceptually, in our mind, when you talk about apprenticeship, you're talking about some form of education that develop that that develops a person's knowledge and skill with a combination of uh like technical instruction or classroom instruction, as well as experiential uh instruction, if you will. So on the job. So it's a combination of those two. That's one of the number one thing I think that sets apprenticeship apart. The number two thing that's often also often missed, I think, is it's about developing the most well-rounded person in that trade. Okay. Uh and there is some, you know, there's some debate in this day and age about whether that that day has come and gone. You know, you don't maybe want every person in the trade being a really well-rounded trade professional. You know, a lot of people want somebody with just, you know, some basic uh tasks that they can perform day in and day out and do it well. You know, but where and you gotta realize, again, what apprenticeship is about developing someone who knows everything from poop to nuts, from the most basic to the most complex of tasks in their individual trade. They are a true journeyman, a master in their trade. And that's what apprenticeship is about trying to develop.

Sonny Maken 9:27

So that's a that's a very interesting point. This because this this sort of the impetus of all of this was my my lunch meeting with this um sub subtrade um association, right? A national group. National group that's interested in possibly having some apprenticeship. Apprenticeship and sort of available in the business. They want to support their industry and and grow their industry. And so they had a meeting with us, and we would sort of be the provider of the education in their specific trade. Uh but one of the things they talked about, and they were, you know, we all had this conversation on a grappled this idea. So they're uh in their trade.

Peter Dyga 10:03

Do they really want probably you had to have the whole do you really want apprenticeship? Is that what you're really talking about?

Sonny Maken 10:08

That and then but for their workers, there's three uh pieces to the process. So there's the manufacturing, then there's sort of the and he used uh another word and I'm blanking on it now, but it was just sort of preparing the item and then the installation. Okay. And and they basically told me that in their industry, all those three things used to be done by the same people, but now it's gotten completely segmented. Okay. So one group, right? There's a great example of what you were talking about. One group just does the manufacturing. Yeah. One group does all of the the beautifying and the process of make getting it ready for install. And then a different group does the install. Right. And I think that's that to me is a fascinating sort of breakdown where you talk about this. And you know, 50 years ago, and the guy told me this 50 years ago, the same guy did all three things. Right. Right. But now it's...

Peter Dyga 10:57

So if you had an apprenticeship program in that, you would want you would need somebody who is a master in all three areas. So, and um by the way, you know, uh my definition is kind of where we're at today, but that um doesn't get at the fact that we're having a very national conversation right now about what apprenticeship will be moving forward. You know, so just because that's what it is today doesn't mean that, in particular, if the federal government, because they kind of drive a lot of this policy, uh, even at the state level, you know, if they determine that apprenticeship today can be something short of being a master, you know, in your field, it could be just a subsection, well then that's the direction we're moving. And that's kind of a discussion and a battle, I think, that's going on right now.

Sonny Maken 11:37

So one of the things that I have always loved about apprenticeship as a form of education is I always loved the fact that it was sort of driven by the needs of the industry. I think sort of the traditional college education is very much sort of backwards, right? We will prepare the student for the first two years, and the next two years we'll prepare them and what the student is.

Peter Dyga 12:00

Once you truly understand what apprenticeship is, there's a logical reason why that is so, correct? Exactly. Yeah. And and what is that? I mean, it's you know, if part of apprenticeship is 2,000 hours a year of on-the-job supervision and training, um then you you begin to realize it ha it can't be anything but industry-led. Trevor : What's happening on the job? Right. Exactly. Because if they don't have the need, you know, for there, then that's you know so it in in in many ways it it's infinitely better than the higher ed model, which, you know, pick your major and you know, and my proverbial underwater basket weaving, or, you know. And by the way, I think governments, in particular Florida, I think is doing a much better job of you know what what degrees we're granting and what we allow people to study in. And each should be related, which is again why apprenticeship is what it is, because it is by definition related to where the demand is.

Sonny Maken 12:54

And I do want to make this point about colleges and universities. There was a period of time, and I don't know if they still do this, but there was a period of time. And this was after I graduated undergrad. And I started seeing this, especially in a lot of the Ivy League, the elite institutions, and I think it spread, where they would tell students, um, I know Columbia does this, I know Harvard does this, come up with something that you want to be your major, right? And if some like panel passes it, then that can be your major, right? Like it's insane. Like so the historic college majors weren't enough. And I remember seeing this, there was a little clip on Instagram, and it was a graduation ceremony out of Columbia, and it was some of the liberal art school, and these kids are talking about their majors, right? And it was like colonial fashion and its impact on um people of color or something like that. Like just absurdly made-up majors. And it was just it was blowing my mind because Columbia is not cheap. And you're like, oh, you can't pick between English and...

Peter Dyga 13:52

By the way, when we say not cheap, we're not just we people should realize we're not talking about just cheap to the student and their parents. We're talking about in most most college university systems are the tuition is a fraction of the overall cost of the education. You know, so in almost every case in a public college and university, this the state is paying for a large portion of that education in their budget every year. So it's expensive. You know, and and again, you've seen the memes over the years, you know, about the blue-collar plumber paying for the you know 75% of the tuition for somebody to go get that degree and you know, whatever.

Sonny Maken 14:29

I was just it's absurd. Like so to me, the fact that you can't pick a major between English and psych and economics, that's like too much for you. And I have like, oh, make up your own major.

Peter Dyga 14:37

Like that's doesn't Florida have I think Florida has some kind of a law where if there's a I don't know, a period of time where a graduate can't get a degree in their uh in their major. In their major. Uh that the university somehow is penalized. So I think Florida has we'll have to look that up. Okay. So let's go back to our apprenticeship comments. Anyway, getting at my point. Right, but there's a little bit of attention now being paid to look, you know, if you're gonna allow this to happen and then they can't find because we we're invest we're vested in this. We've paid for 75 percent of that education in the state of Florida. You know, so we want some kind of results that, you know, are actually preparing people for their futures, their productive futures.

Sonny Maken 15:17

I mean, we're asking people traditional uh secondary education, but the reason I really wanted you to define apprenticeship is because I often hear um from academics, you know, community colleges, um, school boards, oh, we do apprenticeship. Yeah. And I'm always like, You do? How are your people getting their on-the-job training? That's right, exactly. You know, and because they obviously are not doing apprenticeship, they're doing adult ed and they're trying to teach something in a lab and they're giving you a certification. Right. And you're like, Yeah, now go be go do this job. Like and that's it's just not right. It's not first of all, the terminology is wrong. Secondly, it's woefully inadequate, right? So, to your point about the industry sort of leading the training and leading the education is what has made it apprentice, especially in the state of Florida, it has made apprenticeship such an impactful um model for success. And, you know, there's other things we you and I often talk about in meetings, right? And I would love for you to get into that sort of the how Florida law dictates that you cannot charge a tuition for apprenticeship. You know, the whole progressive weight scale year by year. And the fact that it takes time. Like you're talking about 2,000 hours a year. And there's how many like working hours? 2080, I think, is the number of hours, right? Uh-huh. In a year. And 2,000, you have to be on the job. Right. And then you on top of that, you have to go to class. And, you know, um, tomorrow, by the way, if you're listening to this on a Friday, on the Friday when the episode gets released, tomorrow is our graduation ceremony in Pembroke Pines. Um, shoot us an email.

Peter Dyga 16:54

Or our actual apprentices are graduating. You know. Yeah. A hundred and how many, Mr. Producer says.

Sonny Maken 16:59

140 apprentices are graduating tomorrow. Which is which is a large class. Which is a large class. And we, you know, and these are people who have had jobs for the the four years or three years or whatever, however long their program was, and then they have gone to classes at night. Yep. And the sheer number of them that have had perfect attendance records. I remember last year's graduation, 17. Yeah. So it was 21. It was 21 students had perfect attendance last year. And I was blown away by that. Yeah, it's crazy. I went through four years of college and not working at night, and I can tell you I didn't have perfect attendance on any of my classes. Right. You know, and it's just mind-blowing to me how what dedicated students these guys are and gals are, and how hard they work. So if you've never been to an ABCI graduation, it is tomorrow. Yeah, walk up.

Peter Dyga 17:43

We'll get you a spot, you know, and we'll get you some lunch, you know, if you want to stay for the lunch grade or if you want to just see the ceremony. See the ceremony. Come on out. We'd love to. Yeah.

Sonny Maken 17:52

You know, it's uh just shoot us an email at theobvious@abceastflorida.com. So we'll take care of that. So um shout out to graduation tomorrow. And shout out to our events team that does an incredible job putting on this graduation. Absolutely.

Peter Dyga 18:06

And I'm very proud of our graduation. Oh, yeah. I see uh, you know, not to knock uh other graduations around the country, but I don't think few do it like we do. So it is uh I mean the lunch, the families, the the town, the the music.

Sonny Maken 18:19

They deserve it. So you know, and we have a very uh we have an amazing guest speaker or uh uh graduation speaker coming tomorrow from Washington, D.C. He's the head of Workforce Development, his name is uh Troy Selberg, and we're excited to have him uh host him as well tomorrow uh at the ceremony. Um so you will definitely uh get an insight into kind of where apprenticeship is headed, and especially under this administration, where it has gotten a ton of attention and a ton of resources to help grow it. And we have touched on a fraction of what I wanted to talk about, but we are running out of time. So I wanted to give you the last few minutes. 101, did we cover all the basics? We didn't cover all the basics, we might have to do a part two. But I wanted to share with you, I wanted to give you the opportunity to sort of I mean, we literally just defined apprenticeship, and we haven't even gotten into the benefits of all of this yet.

Peter Dyga 19:05

Right, right.

Sonny Maken 19:06

Um You know, we should just do a part two. Let's just do a part two on this. Uh stay tuned. Uh next Friday you'll see part two on this episode. And we do want to thank you for listening and honoring us with your time because this is an important subject. I don't want to just cut it short and then and then assume that we have done all we uh talked about this a little bit.

Peter Dyga 19:24

But it's not going away, and uh it's an ancient uh format of ancient form of training and uh education and training. Uh so yeah, you might as well learn a little bit about the terminology and the things that are used, it's not going away. Um so it's very very important.

Sonny Maken 19:39

And we really want to highlight sort of the fact that it works so well in Florida.

Peter Dyga 19:43

You know, if you're listening to us in a different state and apprenticeship, maybe we can get at you know, again, one-on-one, maybe we can get at the next episode.

Sonny Maken 19:51

So we will uh see you next week and we'll talk about uh apprenticeship or workforce development one on one part two. Thank you for joining us.

Peter Dyga 19:58

And for comments, send us an email at theobvious@abceastflorida.com We'll see you next week.