99 - Tourism Vs. Pilgrimage

In this episode, Peter and Sonny discuss the difference between traveling as a tourist and making a pilgrimage, as Peter reflects on his recent spiritual journey through Portugal, Spain and France. The conversation explores faith, leadership, personal growth, purpose-driven travel, and the value of stepping away from everyday demands to gain perspective. 

 Peter shares how honoring his late mother's love of travel inspired an annual pilgrimage with his sister, visiting renowned Christian pilgrimage sites including Fatima, Lourdes, Loyola and Santiago-related destinations while examining how meaningful experiences can shape both personal and professional leadership. 

 In this episode:

► The difference between a pilgrimage and traditional tourism
► Peter's spiritual journey through Portugal, Spain and France
► The significance of Fatima, Lourdes and other historic Christian sites
► How travel can strengthen leadership, faith and personal growth
► Honoring family traditions through meaningful experiences
► A preview of the special 100th episode of The Obvious Podcast 

 
The full audiovisual version of this episode is available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/g098E63fm7I 

“The Obvious Podcast” is a production of ABC Florida East Coast Chapter. Unless otherwise stated, all content reflects the opinions of the guests and hosts.

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Transcript

Sonny Maken 0:09

Welcome to the Obvious Podcast, episode number ninety-nine. Wow, ninety-nine. Hard to believe. Right. I'm Sonny Maken, COO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Peter Dyga 0:20

And I'm Peter Dyga, president and CEO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Sonny Maken 0:24

You are listening or watching the Obvious Podcast, where all opinions expressed are our own. Unless we say otherwise.

Peter Dyga 0:33

Subscribe on any major podcast platform or watch us in action on YouTube. Follow the Obvious Podcast on Instagram, X, Truth Social, and TikTok. All the links you need are in the show notes. If you enjoy our show, please leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. This is the best way for others to find our show. And we also ask you to reach out to us at any time, or you can reach out to us at any time at the obvious@ abceastflorida.com. And again, if you're enjoying the ride, help others find us by leaving a review wherever you listen. Happy Friday, Sonny. Happy Friday. 99 episodes in the 99 episodes. So can't believe it. So um And by the way, we start every show with saying these are personal views unless they're otherwise. Maybe we don't do a very good job of stating otherwise, so they're not our necessary personal views. But anyway, today in particular, we probably want to spend a little time with the Trevor Burrus. It's very personal. It'll be a personal episode.

Sonny Maken 1:28

So uh before I get into um the meat and potatoes.

Peter Dyga 1:33

We have everybody's ears and antennas.

Sonny Maken 1:34

Oh, yeah. What are these two gonna talk about? What controversies are gonna light on fire? Um I do want to tell our audience to make sure you tune in next Friday for our hundredth episode. Um got a very special episode. Very special episode coming. Mr.

Peter Dyga 1:49

Producer is a little longer than usual, but we're gonna do a little summarizing highlights, you know, scrolling down memory lane.

Sonny Maken 1:56

I mean, Mr. Producer says he has a lot of surprises planned, which even you and I are not privy to, which is fine. We're the talent. I get it, right? Like but there's a lot, I don't know why he's laughing at that when I say we're the talent, but we have uh we have a lot of surprises planned. It'll be a very special episode. We're excited. And I think one of the reasons we've hit a hundred episodes is because we don't sort of have some sort of a formula where we kind of talk about the same things again and again. I mean, we repeat a lot of stuff, but we don't talk about the same things again again. And we get personal, we talk about personal things. And uh our whole thing is like, listen, if you're not entertained and you're not enlightened, you're not gonna watch the show. And if you're not gonna watch the show, what's the point, right? Like the whole idea is to is to give our audience something that it enjoys and something unique and different in perspective. And yeah. It can't all be on the same topics uh every week. We're putting out an episode every Friday, we're about to hit a hundred episodes. So um that's why today's episode is a little unique, it's a little different. But before I even get into that, I wanna I have a surprise for you, Peter, because you were gone uh for America's 250. I was you were in Europe, uh, which is what the show's about, but um and not about Europe or you know how terrible they were during World War II. That's a different year. But um Dunkin' Donuts put this out. This is their Eagle Cup, and it's a cup, like it opens up. You're supposed to design to oh okay, right, okay. And then they put you a drink, and this thing gets you like a free drink for a month or something. Oh, really? The month of July? Yep. You get a free drink. So I wanted to get that to you. Uh a little welcome back to America gift. Is it supposed to be an eagle? It's an eagle. Okay.

Peter Dyga 3:34

It's an eagle.

Sonny Maken 3:37

Thank you. Good job, Duncan Donuts. And we don't even have Duncan as a sponsor, but I wanted to make sure um you received that. You should we'll welcome you as a sponsor. I mean, it's an American it's an American Eagle. Um, and reminded me sort of the Maltese Falcon a little bit, because you know, if you don't know what that movie is, please watch it. Classic. Um Humphrey Bogart, a long time ago, but brilliant movie. Anyway, so like I said, you missed the America's 250th anniversary. Uh, and the reason you missed it is because you were in Europe, right? Yeah. And it's not because you hit America and you were like, I'm leaving this country to miss the 250th anniversary.

Peter Dyga 4:14

Yeah. Um you went there. Tell us why you went there. So I went to Europe, which uh I've been doing uh for a number of years with my sister and um on a on a pilgrimage. On a pilgrimage. Yeah.

Sonny Maken 4:28

So the reason I've been to Europe per se. I've been to pilgrimages. Well, you've been to pilgrimages all over the world. Yes. But though this year it was what I wanted to talk to you about, you posted something, you posted something very different. Okay. On your social media. And so if people follow you on on Facebook, they would know this. You basically did this whole thing, and I think you did it be f right before you left or as you were leaving.

Peter Dyga 4:47

Yeah.

Sonny Maken 4:48

Sort of the difference between a pilgrimage and being a tourist.

Peter Dyga 4:52

Yeah.

Sonny Maken 4:52

And that's obviously a thought that I had never really uh contemplated, didn't know the difference, didn't really ever think about it. And I when I when you posted that, I thought that was such an interesting idea. And I figured I would love for our audience to know um that difference and kind of talk about your trip, talk about your experience. But really, one, I'm really curious as to why you do it. And then number two, is how what it looks like in reality that makes it so different than what a typical tourist does.

Peter Dyga 5:20

Okay. Wow. And uh that that post, I mean, I can't take credit for that. I think I, you know, I've always felt like being a pilgrim was a different experience, different objectives, hopefully different uh uh even a different starting point, you know, than just being a tourist, you know, and whatnot. And um, yeah, so I think I, you know, I got that off the internet somewhere. I thought it was uh apropos. So, but um my my experience really stems from a commitment my sister and I made to each other a few years back when we lost our mother, who was someone who enjoyed traveling. And she she died at a relatively young age and didn't get to do all the traveling she would have liked. Because, you know, um if you don't, you know, I don't know, none of us are guaranteed tomorrow, right? You know, so um so we just kind of like, hey, as uh kind of just to uh honor her, let's you and I, as brother and sister, commit, and we're working on getting my other brother to kind of come to us. But he um anyway, we can get into that a little bit. You know, he's turned off maybe by the pilgrim versus uh tourists. So but um I will point out that the first time I met your brother was in Vegas.

Sonny Maken 6:27

So it was easy to get him there.

Peter Dyga 6:29

Yes, yes. And the coincidence of the fact that he happened to be in town when we were there. Um but um we committed uh, you know, let's you and I do our best. Uh she she works for a school district, so the best time for her is summer. Right. So usually, you know, during the summer, committing to to going on a pilgrimage, you know, and traveling together. Well, we probably at the time it was more, you know, traveling, and I probably was more of the impetus for making it um, you know, more significant than just taking pictures and checking a box and telling people I've been to this location, which I think is the difference between again being a tourist and being a pilgrimage. Anyway. I mean, there's a more um you know, formal, I think, definition, you know, a pilgrimage. Uh, you know, in my context, you know, is uh it kind of has a a Christian context. Uh I don't I don't know that a pilgrimage necessarily has to be Christian. You know, I mean I think a pilgrimage is uh you know traveling to I think defin the technical definition is you know to holy sites. Well yeah, the Muslims do it with the their their Mecca. Sure, and I don't know, perhaps any religion. You could have a pilgrimage, I presume, if if the objective or the goal is, you know, to to travel to uh what you would consider a holy site and and hopefully is having a transformative experience, you know, where you come back to your your personal life, as we all have to, and hopefully um a changed person to some degree or another, or drawn closer to, you know.

Sonny Maken 7:52

So would you say it's a part of your sanctification process, or is it some sort of a great way of saying it, yeah. A spiritual need it fills for you or both of those. Yep, yep. Okay.

Peter Dyga 8:01

So on this specific trip, like life's full of enough challenges, right? Without absolutely doing this years ago, and um this year we did one, and we've always done these through an organization. Um there are many organizations out there that will help you coordinate this. So we do go with a group uh for for me in particular. Uh it's an organization called 206 Tours. What we like about them over the years is uh there's always a a priest, you know, on your tour. So you have a kind of a spiritual advisor, you have mass every day. Uh you know, he's available for confessions for people that want to have, you know, anyway. It's nice having a lot of people.

Sonny Maken 8:39

Is he a priest from like the the country you're in? Or does he have a lot of people?

Peter Dyga 8:43

Any kind of uh, you know, generally 206 just you know um priests know that uh they pretty much pay for the expenses if you're willing to go, you know, and work. So, you know, I think they have probably a pretty good study of priests that are like, oh, I'm interested in that pilgrimage, and that time works for me, so I'll sign up for that, you know. And they get to go with the tour. They get to go with the group. So you know, you'll probably never wind up with the same one on any one pilgrimage, but uh you had priest repeat on your tours or are they have been different? Not in any of the ones we've been. But two or six that you've been. So very cool. Uh the one we had on this trip was uh he's actually from Nigeria. So and he had studied in Rome for seven years, so he's you know, he spoke uh Nigeria, I guess, official language is English, so he knew English.

Sonny Maken 9:27

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 9:27

They have another uh English dialect as well, kind of like Patois, you know, or something here in the country. Yeah, he spoke Italian after his seven years there, and he since has been transferred to uh Lincoln, Nebraska. So he works at a wow, he works at a parish in Lincoln, Nebraska. But he doesn't have to use his Italian there. So no, no. So any event, he was wonderful. He was wonderful, and it's always a blessing to so over the years, you know, we started with all the, you know, from a Christian perspective, what you would expect to be the high the most significant Christian pilgrimage sites, right? We went to the Holy Land. Yeah. That might have been the first or second. Italy, you know, was one. Um we did uh Poland one year, kind of called the footsteps of Pope St. John Paul II, which was probably one of my favorites. Poland is a you know spectacular country with spectacular people. Uh we did Ireland, uh, we did the Camino. Uh now those that don't know uh Camino, there's been several movies that popularize the Camino, and the most popular one is from France, but really the Camino is any any any uh any path that pilgrims for centuries, if not millennium, have taken to visit the St. James uh burial site in in Compostelo and Santiago de Compostelo in in Spain on the I didn't even know St.

Sonny Maken 10:46

James was buried in Spain.

Peter Dyga 10:47

Yeah.

Sonny Maken 10:48

Wow.

Peter Dyga 10:49

So so for centuries, millennial again, you know, the most popular one is in France. It's like uh I mean I don't want to say I'll probably get it wrong, but I don't know, 700 miles? And people walk this.

Sonny Maken 10:59

For 700 miles? Yeah. You know, when you talk about St. James, you mean James from the book of the Bible, right? That James. Okay. Wow.

Peter Dyga 11:05

You've probably seen videos of uh the the church uh St. James is buried has this huge censor that the monks Oh yeah.

Sonny Maken 11:13

That's that's that's strange. Oh, I had no idea.

Peter Dyga 11:17

And uh that church and that mass with the center is uh mass that's celebrated for all the pilgrims that arrive that day. Okay. Some of them have been on the way for like months. Wow. So a lot of people today will do the Camino that really it's they're not Christian or really for no religious purposes at all. It's you know, for them, it's more of a you know overcoming some channels. So better start it off as uh, you know, kind of a Christian pilgrimage of honoring, you know, the the the saint, uh the apostle. You know most people think of the the French way, but it actually is pretty much you know, there's an Italian way and a northern Spain way and a Portugal way, and because whatever path the the person was taking. So any pretty much uh one of one of the pilgrimages we did was uh the the Spain Camino. On district. Except we did it in a bus. 700 miles on a bus? You know, because these groups seem too long. Well, no, the the French one is the longest one, 700 miles. The Spanish one was like from uh from uh Barcelona and uh through northern Spain. Okay. You know, and then I think the last five miles they can dump you off and make you walk five miles, okay. So anyway. I mean that's pretty long too. So we did that, and then this year was uh uh was called uh Marian Shrines of uh so we went to uh Lisbon in Portugal and then Fatima. Okay. I don't know if how many people are familiar, but Fatima is a pretty significant site apparition site, you know, uh that occurred in 1917, and so um and then we went through several other very significant uh towns in Spain, uh Loyola, which is where St. Ignatius of Loyola was born. Uh I went to Salamanca and we went to um Avila, where uh Teresa of Avila was born and uh worked our way up through into across the Pyrenees into France to Lourdes.

Sonny Maken 13:10

So that was our that was our spiritually spiritual impact. Like how did it feel? Uh how did how do you feel like it transformed you? What did you what did you enjoy the most?

Peter Dyga 13:22

Yeah. You know, I obviously I enjoy being together and spending time together with my sister and with Saudi and whatnot. Um but you're also in a group, which is I think one of my posts I might have posted, you know, this is imagine how I feel being a Christian in the early years or centuries must have been like. Because the world around you was Christian. You know, so you all woke up every day and you had the same experience, and you know, you prayed together and sang together, and uh you know, so I mean it's like that for ten days, which is kind of nice.

Sonny Maken 13:55

It's like a corporate experience as with an individual experience. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah.

Peter Dyga 13:59

So that's kind of nice. You know, and even some of these towns that we went to, uh, Fatima and Lourdes, I'm sure you know what happens. Anything like that's gonna attract uh bad elements in society, but you didn't sense it, you didn't feel it at all. Everybody was there for uh For the right reasons. For the right reasons, you know? And I when I say I mean that's a lot of people. When we're in the middle of summer, even their summer, but you know, there was uh you know, I I mean I I don't know how many people, but every night, you know, uh processions and praying and whatnot. Um a lot of people.

Sonny Maken 14:39

So the pilgrimage piece really sort of determines the location and the destination, right?

Peter Dyga 14:44

Well, you know, and I again uh if you think of a pilgrimage as visiting holy sites and trying to grow in that sanctity and whatnot, you know, you can find holy sites almost anywhere. Anywhere, you know. So and we do, you know, you go through a lot of small towns in in Spain and Portugal and France and you know, the stops along the way, which you know you find the monasteries and the basilicas and the cathedrals and the whatever.

Sonny Maken 15:05

So um, but then how do how does like do you get free time? How does the uh you know how do you do like the restaurants? Do you get how does the meals work? Like I'm curious about it.

Peter Dyga 15:13

Yep, that's a great question. This particular group's great. Again, you have the priests, which is awesome. You have a mass every day, and to me, as a as a Catholic, you know, a mass is the you know highest form of you know of worship we can do. The places we have it are just over the years are just astounding. You know, like I remember our Holy Land pilgrimage, and when you're actually having mass at the Holy Sepulchre, you know, or the foot of the cross, you know, or you're having them anyway. This the places that you have mass are pretty spectacular. So um uh you generally uh have a you know a provided they they take care of everything, which makes this really nice. And I their experience, they know exactly how long people can tolerate this. Right? Because there's a little bit of part of the experiences doing this together, right, you know, and having to deal with um you know, trying to live out your your your principles in a group setting, you know, when we know that's challenging. You know. So uh but they know exactly, you know, uh how long it needs to be to get done what you want to do, but not too long to where you're ready to kill it. Frustrated, yeah. So um, but it's beautiful. They uh do all the arrangements, usually spectacular hotels. Really pretty good, pretty nice hotels.

Sonny Maken 16:31

You eat all your meals together?

Peter Dyga 16:32

We eat all our meals together, except sometimes uh lunch is oftentimes free. On your on your own. But they're breakfast and dinner, and they provide wine at dinner, which is nice. Uh, you know, a nice air conditioned, comfortable breakfast. You can tell that's a Catholic group with the Protestants will never do that. So anyway, so yeah, it's uh you know it's great. Uh we had, I think, well, at one point, and and by the way, it it changes because uh sometimes they're merging, you know, they might they might have a tour that's just doing Lords. So you might have been doing some of your tour doing other sites, and then you get to Lords and you meet up with another group. So the size of the group is changing, but you know, we're probably with a core group of I don't know, 18 or 25, I think it was, for most of the trip. And then it got as high as you know, 40 or 50, I think, in Lourdes. So but uh, you know, it's just it's you know, it's uh it's a great time for you know the distractions of life, you know, you're not having to pay thank you. Yeah, you know, and everybody here back at the office, because uh, you know, a few years ago it was much more difficult to be away and knowing that so um but yeah, being away from the distractions of life and um again living living your faith as a as a society, as a group, as a community, which is kind of the way it was, you know, I mean that's literally the worship is meant to be you know a group activity.

Sonny Maken 17:55

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 17:55

So any event.

Sonny Maken 17:56

So I saw something uh on your post. We're running out of time, so I'm gonna ask you two quick questions. I saw something on your post where you were speaking at a church in the morning or something. How did that come about?

Peter Dyga 18:05

Uh where I was in particular? So I don't know how much how I mean you're probably pretty familiar more than most with the Catholic Mass, but there's uh you know readings during the Mass. So on the laity, uh so I was chosen to do the reading during the Mass, uh actually at Fatima. Which is most people in the group at one point or another, you know, who want to do a reading or you know, who get to get to do a reading, because you know, we're you gotta be. Well, you know, and the one at Fatima was not just a private mass, which a lot of times they're just private masses for your group. But since we were at a public pilgrimage site, you know, there were pilgrims from all over the world at that mass. And you got to do the reading. I got to do the reading.

Sonny Maken 18:42

Do you remember what your reading was?

Peter Dyga 18:44

Oh, it was a revelation.

Sonny Maken 18:45

Oh wow. Chapter 21. Okay. Yeah. People must have been like, uh, did he not say revelations? By the way, that drives me nuts. It's singular. It's revelation, not revelations. Oh. So anyway, that was awesome. That's awesome. It's quite an honor. Uh we're running out of time. So last question. What was your favorite destination and why?

Peter Dyga 19:03

Wow. That's really hard. So um of the two Marion sites, I enjoyed Fatima. Okay. I mean, they're both spectacular, and Lourdes is a beautiful place. You know, in the French countryside at the foothills of the Pyrenees. But um uh and much, much larger um, you know, it it seemed. Uh much much much more people there. So, but I don't know, Fatima, because uh Fatima, the the message of Fatima, the fact there was an apparition of uh Our Lady as well as uh angels, actually, uh I think three different apparitions of angels to the three young children occurred about a year before the Marian apparitions happened, and you know, it was a beautiful message of really repentance and um yeah, you know. So in any event, that that that spoke to me a little bit more. So but boy, the the different sites that we went to. You know, the birthplace of Saint Anthony of Padua in Lisbon. Wow. It's an interesting story because he's called Saint Anthony of Padua.

Sonny Maken 20:02

I don't know why why is he called that?

Peter Dyga 20:03

So well, because he kind of ended his life in Padua, but it's uh it's a little bit of a sore point with the Portuguese because he's from he's from Lisbon, you know, and he's like, well, he's really St. Anthony of Lisbon, you know. So anyway. That's so fun. Yeah. So you know, the the monasteries we go to and these uh these Christian um what do you call them? You know, rock stars, you know. I mean St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits, and uh St. Teresa.

Sonny Maken 20:34

But that's a different conversation.

Peter Dyga 20:35

Yeah, that is a different conversation. But one that I thoughts that I've had. So in any event.

Sonny Maken 20:41

Yeah. People are like, oh, you went to Georgetown, I'm sorry. We'll we'll talk about that later. Um well that's great. Well, welcome back. Well, thank you. You know, you were in Europe and the Europeans were here for the World Cup, and you were in Europe for for spiritual reasons.

Peter Dyga 20:57

I re I represented the you know the U.S. and you know they certainly don't mind us spending our money there. And they don't uh didn't get to watch you know a lot of the game or anything because of the time difference and whatnot. So but um But they were leaving monkeys and you were enjoying the periodic. I think we were in uh we were in uh Salamanca, which the square there is huge. It's beautiful. Okay. You know, the Europe is much, and I might have I might have talked in the past about you know Latin America or Costa Rica, which I'm more familiar with, how every town has a square with a and a church. Yeah. You know, and their their park is usually, you know, and it's a part of uh Europe's very similar, you know. And Salamanca Square was huge, and that was the night that I think uh was it in Salamanca or was it in yeah, it was in Salamanca. That was the night when the Spain or the Spanish game was being played, I think. And the all the people were out. Oh the Spanish game, yes. That was great. It was great. So in any event, that was fun, you know. Um was that a close game or the Spanish the Spain? I forget the final. It was close, I think. Was it a close game? Two?

Sonny Maken 21:59

Spain Portugal?

Peter Dyga 22:00

Yeah, no, the Spain-Portugal one. Well, was that the one? I know it was the one that Spain played before that. Oh, before the Portugal, I think.

Sonny Maken 22:07

I forget who they played. Well, it was a long time ago. We're getting ready for uh real football now in this country, you know. This oh man, I'm gonna get some hate mail for that one.

Peter Dyga 22:17

We're probably getting hate mail anyway. I know.

Sonny Maken 22:19

We're getting ready for any event. We had a spectacular time. That's awesome. Uh, welcome back. Thank you very much. And I'm I'm glad that sort of each trip sort of helps with the the process of sanctification and you're able to and to live out, you know, your certainly your mother's dreams and to do it with your sister and your family is is is so rewarding and and and wonderful. So uh we hope you enjoyed this little detour we took into something a little bit more personal. Uh give us your thoughts, comments, uh send us an email theobvious@abceastflorida.com All right. All right, thank you for joining us.

Peter Dyga 22:55

Thank you. Until next time. Up one hundred, episode one hundred. Next week. Don't miss that. Tune in. All right, until next time.