101 - Taxation Theft (Part 1)

In this episode, Peter and Sonny discuss taxation, government spending, property taxes, and the role of public policy in economic freedom. They explore how taxes affect individuals, businesses, homeownership, and the construction industry, while debating government growth, fiscal responsibility, and Florida's proposed constitutional amendment to expand the homestead property tax exemption. 

 The conversation also examines affordability, leadership, public finance, and the long-term impact of taxation on families, employers, and economic competitiveness. This is Part 1 of a two-part discussion on one of the most debated issues in public policy.

 In this episode:

► The history and modern relevance of the Boston Tea Party

► How taxation affects consumers, businesses, and homeownership
► Property taxes, affordability, and economic competitiveness
► Florida's proposed homestead exemption constitutional amendment
► Government spending, fiscal policy, and taxpayer accountability
► Why this debate matters to business leaders, contractors, and Florida residents

The full audiovisual version of this episode is available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rrUyU0kOR_o

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Transcript

Sonny Maken 0:10

Welcome to the Obvious Podcast. This is episode number 101. I'm Sonny Maken, COO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Peter Dyga 0:18

And I'm Peter Daiga, president and CEO at ABC Florida East Coast.

Sonny Maken 0:22

You're listening or watching to the Obvious Podcast, where all opinions expressed are our own, unless we say otherwise.

Peter Dyga 0:29

Make sure you're subscribed to the Obvious Podcast wherever you listen. And don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss a new episode. You can also connect with us on Instagram, X, Truth Social, and TikTok, where we share clips, updates, and more. All of our links are waiting for you in the show notes. And if you have feedback or an idea for a future podcast, send us a note anytime at the obvious@ abceastflorida.com. Happy Friday, Sonny, and welcome to uh the first episode of the Next Hundred. Yeah, there you go.

Sonny Maken 1:02

First I do want to make a point about the YouTube channel, because I got a couple of texts on this, Mr. Producer. People saying, I'm trying to watch your show, but it's just an audio. So there's two two versions on YouTube. One just audio and one video. So yeah. So you will see an audio version and a video version on YouTube as well, plus Spotify and all of that. So don't get confused. You're not watching the wrong, I mean, you're you're watching the wrong thing, but the other one is there as well. They're all on YouTube. So today I wanted to ask you a question, Peter. As something controversial? Right? Here we go. Can you think of an economic transaction in your life, daily life, that you do? Um that you this organization does that you could do as in your professional life as well. Can you think of anything that's uh that's an economic transaction that doesn't get touched by taxation?

Peter Dyga 1:58

I would be hard pressed. Um cash transactions. Maybe maybe. Okay. You know, because there are some people that that do it that way. Right. And um that that's even getting to the point, I think that's why we're headed in a direction of a cashless society. It's because that's very hard to they're very hard for the government to track to collect taxes on. So yep. So but yeah, I would say outside of cash transactions, yeah, that's it's hard. Right. And even all cash transactions, obviously. I mean, you can do a cash transaction at a store and they're gonna collect their tax. Right. But if you're doing cash transactions with a s certain intent, that's that's the only way I can think of of avoiding it.

Sonny Maken 2:33

That yeah, and but that's also technically illegal, right? I mean the government wants you to collect taxes.

Peter Dyga 2:39

Well, yeah, if it was on a taxable item and you didn't pay. So and not only that, but which I think you and you had intended to get into, uh, where did we get the cash from? Well, presumably from a job which that income was taxed. Taxed so even the cash even the cash system. In some ways, was taxed.

Sonny Maken 2:56

There's I mean, uh, you know, you look at I was I was driving down the turnpike today, and I'm looking at the car, and I'm thinking, because I got my car registration in the mail yesterday, because my my birthday's coming up, so I gotta renew my in Florida. If you don't know this, your car registration's connected to your birthday date. So you kind of renewed the month your birthday is so my birthday's coming up, I get this thing, right? So I gotta pay the government 75 bucks just for keeping my car. Yeah. And my car was bought with tax money and it was paid. You paid sales tax. I paid the sales tax on the car, and now uh and it was the money that I used to buy the car was also taxed. And now I gotta pay a government a tax every year just to keep my car, and the gas that it takes to run on is taxed. Sure. Right? Like if something goes wrong and I have to go get it fixed, I'm gonna I'm gonna pay a tax on that. We've come a long way from Boston. Right. So I got curious about the Boston Tea Party and kind of what led to that whole revolution, right?

Peter Dyga 3:55

That was a former employee, by the way, here at ABC used to um accuse me rightfully of I used to say about our northeastern uh patriotic roots, revolutionary roots, about how they've they've completely they've completely lost it. They're living on uh their reputation or their what historical whatever, right? Because that's the most it's the it's the one part of the country that was probably least apt to complain about a what was it, a three percent tax on tea? Uh or whatever the you know it was three pennies. They're the area of the country probably the the tax the most and the least uh or the more immune, I guess, to anyway. Sorry to steal your thunder. No, no.

Sonny Maken 4:36

So I looked it up. The Boston Tea Party was a duty of three pennies on a pound of tea. You said it was like a twenty percent in the twenty percent on the base cost of the pound of tea.

Peter Dyga 4:48

Yeah.

Sonny Maken 4:48

And it actually made the legal British tea cheaper than it had been before. And it was just it was and the they were angry because they didn't get to you know, the whole idea of taxation without representation. And I just think of how far we have come where the half a country doesn't even question government spending, doesn't even question taxes.

Peter Dyga 5:10

Well, is that because they have representation I mean I don't know. I've never really we all know about the Boston Tea Party and and uh Oh no, don't say that.

Sonny Maken 5:19

I mean this country is massively ignorant when it comes to the well of history.

Peter Dyga 5:27

Some of us know about the Boston Tea Party, but I don't know that I knew before we started today and you did the research that it was three percent and the twenty percent increase, and you know, but yeah, it was always we all I mean, again, I can't say we all. But um it's common to be taught that it was about taxation without representation. And I don't know. It was it was it the tax itself? Was it a combination of the tax and the fact that it was being done by the crown and they had no representation, right?

Sonny Maken 5:58

You know so and remember this was at a time when there was no such thing as an income tax.

Peter Dyga 6:02

But anyway, I guess what right, right. And and I guess what I'm trying to say is that would probably be the excuse of people who are more uh opposed to you know those of us that think taxes are out of control, and you know, uh to say that, well, you know, it's being imposed on you by duly elected individuals. Right. So it's not like it's taxation without representation. So you can't anyway. Sorry to totally bog down this conversation. It's not really what you wanted to do.

Sonny Maken 6:30

No, no, I just I was, you know, every every part of American life I and I you could argue modern uh West modern Western life is like drenched in taxation. There's no.

Peter Dyga 6:43

If you really think about it, it's unbelievable. Right. Beyond, you know, um it's like I've always likened it kind of a little bit like the the frog or the lobster in the slow boil, right? We're so accustomed to it now. Yeah. We have no idea just how much we're taxed in how many different ways.

Sonny Maken 6:59

Every single thing you see behind me, every single thing in front of me, when it was bought with taxed money, taxes were paid on that. Right. Every single thing.

Peter Dyga 7:08

Right.

Sonny Maken 7:08

Right? And I don't know, if you don't own a company and and you're not aware of this, um what is that tax called that they send you a bill for your equipment? Tangible property tax. Tangible taxes, right? Tangible property tax. So you buy something for your, let's say this conference room table you're looking at, this was bought with tax money. And it w there was and it was paid, there was a sales tax paid on the table. Yep.

Peter Dyga 7:31

And the government wants a piece of the value of this table from now until a lot of people aren't aware of that because that's uh they only do that on business. All right. It's a business tax. They're not asking you, you know, at your house or you know, I don't think they do.

Sonny Maken 7:47

Well, don't give them that idea on how they're gonna come after intangible taxes on houses.

Peter Dyga 7:51

You know, and uh you're at your contents of your house. How much is your couch worth? Right. That's what they do on business. I know. No, they're just uh like uh exemptions, you know, in thresholds.

Sonny Maken 8:00

I mean Florida is is uh pretty good about that. I think it's fifty thousand dollars and and if you're under fifty thousand dollar value. You know, but if you're a nice sort of office.

Peter Dyga 8:07

But that's all those things are just about politics. You know, if like we exempt certain people over, you know, under a certain amount, then we're not gonna have their opposition. Right. You know, so we can get away with it's still socialism in a way. Right. Like Mandami, you know, uh choosing to just go after certain rich people or houses or incomes over a certain amount. You know, because his his calculation is, as as most socialist calculations are, that if I can divide the people enough between the the haves and the have not. You know, that um you know, until they come for you. Right. Right. So I read today all these taxes, you know, are supporting in some way or another one of our three levels of government.

Sonny Maken 8:46

Right.

Peter Dyga 8:46

Right? The local, state, or federal government. And I think this is what was this the episode we wanted to get into? Because nothing government is never gonna shrink on its own. It's just not. It's just not the nature of government. It's not gonna shrink on its own unless it's forced to. Bureaucracy is a default position is to grow. That's right. Right. The taxes in order to support that and fund it is never gonna go down. You're your taxes are never gonna be cut voluntarily unless something forces the government to do that. Yep. And every once in a while, we're fortunate enough because of the state we live in, um, you know, where we have that opportunity. Yep. You know, to force a reduction and force elected officials to actually make hard choices that you and your family have to make every day.

Sonny Maken 9:30

I do want to, before, before we get into that, I do want to make this point. I I read this today. This was a quote from the comtroller. He's either the existing comproller or he's running to a comtroller for the state of New York. No, there's not city, but this is a hundred thousand taxpayers pay enough taxes to fund the entire operation for the whole state of New York. They're top hundred thousand taxpayers.

Peter Dyga 9:55

A hundred thousand in a state of what, twenty million or something like that.

Sonny Maken 9:59

Are paying taxes enough taxes to cover the entire state's budget. Okay. It's absolutely insane. Right?

Peter Dyga 10:08

I mean, I know we all hear like eat the rich and the rich. Don't get me don't get me started on that. And I've seen the we've all seen the stats, yeah. Um, but I probably can't uh quote them from the top of my head. But whenever you hear this, and again, uh socialist slash communist, you know, that have been around for decades and century now, you know, about fair share and the wealthy paying their fair share in this whole class division, um you never hear in the same sentence the fact that I mean, what is it? Like one percent of the income earners or producers or holders in the country pay like 40 percent of the overall taxes. The top ten or fifteen percent pay ninety five percent or something. I mean, it's you know, uh what exactly is fair share if that's not I mean, I I actually would agree that's not fair. Right. It's yeah, they're being quite unfair, actually. So and uh I'm certainly not uh in that um In that camp in that camp, that category, but I I can certainly recognize fairness when I see it and a lie when I hear it.

Sonny Maken 11:11

So let's go back to this uh your earlier point about rarely, but once in a while you get an opportunity to sort of fight back.

Peter Dyga 11:19

Yep.

Sonny Maken 11:19

Yeah, pay less than taxes. Yep.

Peter Dyga 11:22

This might have to be a two-parter if we can start into this now.

Sonny Maken 11:25

The state of Florida has that opportunity. Uh there's an amendment on the ballot coming up which requires 60% of the vote. And that essentially doesn't eliminate any taxes. So I guess we should we should explain for our non-Florida people what um homestead is. You can do that?

Peter Dyga 11:44

Sure. So well, I think probably most states have a homestead. Uh so it's you know, it's uh your your home where you pri where you have your primary residence. Uh, you know, you probably have to prove, you know, different states probably require that proof in different ways or another. Either, you know, uh, you know, you live there a certain amount of time during the year, or uh, you know, um your utility bills are in your name. I don't know. You're anyway, there's different ways I suppose different states prove it, but uh if it's your primary residence, you you can homestead it. All right. And in Florida, there's a certain, again, with the game of trying to divide and conquer, yeah, right? Houses under a certain value. Um what what is it currently? The standard homestead exemption. Um 50,000 or 50,000 than that. I think it's a 50,000. And then you get then you get added on if you're a veteran, if you're a uh senior citizen. First responder. First responders. Over the years, the state of Florida has added extra value to that. Yes. Um and one of the amendments, because um, by the way, it's very interesting because affordability has become you know that catchphrase, right? Yeah, you know, but when it comes to affordability and the role taxes play in that, all of a sudden the left is dead silent. Yeah, like that. Dead silent. You know, the Democrats and the left are dead silent on affordability when it comes to government's pressure taxes and whatnot. Um, because there it's almost as much uh as your your your mortgage. And if you had the insurance and the taxes to it, so I mean it's it's gotta be more probably than your building doubles your mortgage. Money. So think I've always thought of it this way. Think about how much more house you could afford if it wasn't for the Yeah, I I am paying and I don't have a big house, right? By the way, another pet peeve of mine is I mean, at least with insurance, you're actually getting something in exchange for it. Now we could argue about, you know, the the in but you're getting protection, right? You're getting the the promise of your house burns down or things something happens, you're gonna they're gonna like you know pay. Um you you're getting something in exchange. So now somebody would argue with with taxes, you're getting something in exchange. You're getting the roads, you're getting the schools, you're getting the libraries, you're getting all that kind of thing. That's right.

Sonny Maken 14:01

That's right. They they would they could argue that. They would argue that. And that's and we I understand that. Like there's but it's like that's where the money has to come from. Right? The money has to come from property tax. And again, this goes back to the point of sort of waste and um just the sheer amount of money they collect from taxation. Um because I bought that money with you know, the down payment was the money that was taxed.

Peter Dyga 14:25

So anyway, so back to Florida, so people understand what's going on here. Um there was a robust conversation this past legislative session and actually going back a few years, I think, yeah, uh, about affordability and the uh uh exceedingly rapid uh rate of um increase, if you will, of taxes, in in particular local taxes around the state. And part of the conversation has been about, uh which I'd love our governor for this, Governor Ron DeSantis. I think he was one of the ones I first heard it from, uh, you know, where it's like you never really own your home. Right. I mean, you could be paying your mortgage your whole life and after 30 or 40 years or however long, 15 or you know, you you you pay it off, but if you still owe the government every year for that home, even after you've paid the mortgage off. Right. And if you don't pay it, although I get the homesteaded properties, I think, are exempt from uh from foreclosure or anything, right? Now if you sell it, they'll probably tax it. Yeah, they'll collect someone else. So whoever, you know, um your your your sales proceeds, uh whether it's you or your estate, will eventually pay that. I think if you don't pay your mortgage, the lender can still foreclose.

Sonny Maken 15:34

But I I I don't know. I think tax save the you know what we'll address this in part two. We'll look it up. Because I think if you don't pay your property taxes, even if you're homesteaded, you can lose your home. Now, I think if there's a judgment against you, they can't take your house away if there's a non-property tax related judgment. I think that just goes and sits and waits for you to sell it.

Peter Dyga 15:53

So I'm not sure. So but uh anyway, the the larger conversation was about, you know, the the role of property taxes in owning your home. And uh the governor was uh uh throwing out there this idea of at some point you ought to like, you know, uh thirty years later, okay, you know, when you're 50 or you're 60 and you've paid for your home, that you ought to own it outright and not own any taxes. And a lot of people like that idea. Well, they didn't go quite that far. That was part of an overall larger conversation about the direction Florida's gonna go in. And what they ended up doing was putting a constitutional amendment on the ballot that again, you met you alluded to uh requires sixty percent of the voters, which is a fairly high threshold uh these days. You know, sometimes you can't get people to agree on hardly anything. It's sometimes difficult. Yeah. So but what it would do is I think add a significant amount to the homestead exemption. Yeah. I forget how much. Do you know how much Amendment 3 does? I think it was 150. Adds 150,000 to the exemption. So they're saying they're saying like some, I don't know, 50 or 60 percent of most of the homes in the state would be exempt from tax, you know. Uh probably not the ones in urban areas like we're in.

Sonny Maken 17:04

Yeah.

Peter Dyga 17:04

Uh but in a lot of the more rural value, yeah, lower rural valued homes. Almost all of them would be exempt, which again is part of the the government's um coordinated effort to defeat this, you know, is how how are these local governments going to survive, especially the smaller ones and the more rural ones? So which is really offensive in and of itself in my mind, because a lot of this issue and a lot of other issues over the years that kind of directly impact government and taxation and those kind of things, uh, it just boils my blood that if you watch your TV right now or your mail or whatever, you're getting all these campaigns funded by the government, funded by your tax dollars to advocate for more tax dollars. They're spending your money telling you this is a bad idea because because guess what services they'll cut first? Right. Uh schools, uh police, fire. Fire. Right. But yeah, that's the first thing, maybe. You know, and you know, none of the other stuff government does, you know, uh DEI stuff or who knows, you know, other crazy stuff they spend money on. Yeah. So no, that's the game they play.

Sonny Maken 18:22

My little town of 72 square miles has 38 parks. Sacrilege. I mean, do I need 38 parks in my in my hometown? I mean, it's insane. Anyway, I know I'm gonna get some hate mail for that, but uh, we are out of time. So this will be uh part two, guys. I'm sorry.

Peter Dyga 18:36

Like we should have You didn't ask the big question yet.

Sonny Maken 18:39

Yeah, I know. We'll save it for part two. The big question's coming up. Well, that was an interesting uh episode. We look forward to part two on this. Make sure you subscribe to our feed so you won't miss a single episode. Thank you for listening and honoring us with your time. We look forward to sharing part two of uh this episode next Friday.

Peter Dyga 18:57

For comments, send us an email at theobvious@abceastflorida.com. . Until next Friday.